Members | Sign In
All Forums > Development
avatar

characters and experience

posted Apr 03, 2013 21:18:59 by JohnKlingbeil
an idea for down the road in Artemis development...

player characters

there's no actual choosing of classes or selection of stats/attributes, but you do assign a name to the character. as you play the game your character gains experience related to the station you are operating. successful completion of a mission grants the character X amount of experience, but failure grants none as the character is probably dead. possibly erases the character as well, as a degree of difficulty. each level achieved through accumulation of experience adds a percentage of skill bonus to that station.

example:

crewman Jenkins is manning the weapons station. he has 1 level in the weapons station and gains a 1% bonus to his duties, such as hitting the target or a bonus to damage or whatever. player characters can man all stations and gain individual experience per station when played. i.e. weapons exp, science exp, helm exp, etc... captains would gain exp divided among all stations.

it's just an idea that rewards players for actual success of missions and gives a sense of overall achievement. not sure if the characters should be able to walk (saved on USB and leaves with the player) or if they should stay locked to the server to avoid hacking.

just a thought that i came up with while thinking about what i would like to see in Artemis as an owner of a business trying to make money off of it by getting people to come back.
page   1 2 next last
16 replies
avatar
TaigiaReilly said Apr 03, 2013 21:48:32
That sounds too much like Star Trek online.
avatar
JohnKlingbeil said Apr 03, 2013 21:50:50
is that bad?

also, you can't play STO the same way as you play Artemis.
avatar
CaptainZach said Apr 03, 2013 23:00:08
You should take a look at Star Quest Online, an MMORPG in which one of the game dynamics involves players taking control of bridge stations.

I don't like the idea of having to grind for levels in Artemis. In theory, a group of players(or just one guy) who play one mission again and again would have the advantage over skilled (or unskilled) players who actually learn how to play the game.

That said, it's completely possible to implement something like this with a mod or game-mastered missions.
avatar
TreChipman said Apr 03, 2013 23:51:17
I have the rudiments of a PC system in place at Artemis Command that allows you to create a crewmember aboard a player controlled ship and fleet (and faction and universe, now that I think about it) and ideally will get tracked by station you served as you complete missions with that character, but it still needs a lot of work before it's ready for primetime.

That being said, Artemis is already a skill based game, and your skills as a player (NOT a character) are automatically refined a bit every time you play-- granting advantages to your character for your abilities as a player seems a little lopsided. For example, if player A is awesome at the weapons console because he's spent 100+ hours manning it, his character SHOULDN'T get an additional bonus over player B because he's already awesome at it by virtue of his actual experience. However, his character should totally get bragging rights to say "I've manned the weapons console on over 80 victorious missions," which I think already imparts a psychological advantage over player B.


[Last edited Apr 03, 2013 23:59:29]
I'm not a mad scientist. I'm an angry one. You'd be wise to fear the latter.

Visit Artemis Command!
avatar
Captain said Apr 04, 2013 02:47:19
What about just character stats maybe abilities. Example it keeps for stats at weapons like you fired 354 missiles etc. And the character you make gets a chosen bounces. That way your entire crew can create characters with certain bonuses to play off of each other. So you could have a helmsman with a bonus maneuverability coupled with a weapons officer with increased arcs. Overall increasing the effectiveness of the ships weapons. That way your crew can develop an individualized play style based upon those combos. No benift to grinders over regular players.
To Mankind
And the hope that the war against folly may someday be won, after all

Isaac Asimov
avatar
TaigiaReilly said Apr 04, 2013 05:01:35
Example it keeps for stats at weapons like you fired 354 missiles etc. And the character you make gets a chosen bounces.


How could this not benefit grinders? They'd just play until they got to this point.
avatar
TreChipman said Apr 04, 2013 05:27:44
No, I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree, Captain. Playing the game and getting good at it is its own reward-- if someone said*, "Well, Michael Jordan scored an average of 30 points per game and therefore qualifies to stand three feet closer to the goal when he makes a foul shot, and maybe should get special shoes that give him an extra 10% jumping bonus over the other players," you'd have every right to smack that person in the mouth. Or punch them in the throat. I suppose it depends on the kind of day you're having. Either way, I believe that the right to retaliate physically against such blatant stupidity should be protected under the Constitution. But that's a different conversation.

It is, in no small way, not only an insult to the game, but an insult to the people who actually work at getting good at it; it trivializes the time they put into honing their skill while further marginalizing people who are new to the game. I don't have a problem with rewarding them for achievements in the game-- heck, I just implemented beginnings of a badge system at Artemis Command, but I would NEVER want to see those achievements parlaying into an in-game bonus.

Long and the short of it is you get good because you're good, not because you've grinded out a ton of Shrute Bucks.



*and, by the way, I hate you for the fact you're not only placing me in a position where I have to make a sports analogy, but for forcing making me look up the stats as well.
[Last edited Apr 04, 2013 05:50:59]
I'm not a mad scientist. I'm an angry one. You'd be wise to fear the latter.

Visit Artemis Command!
avatar
Captain said Apr 04, 2013 11:57:28
No. The bonus is given when you create the character. You don't unlock more nor do you gain multiple. One bonus for one character. That was my idea sorry if it was unclear.
To Mankind
And the hope that the war against folly may someday be won, after all

Isaac Asimov
avatar
TreChipman said Apr 04, 2013 16:45:34
Ah... sorry-- I didn't understand the distinction.
I'm not a mad scientist. I'm an angry one. You'd be wise to fear the latter.

Visit Artemis Command!
avatar
Captain said Apr 04, 2013 21:04:26
No need to apologize it was rather unclear. And looking back upon it. It really is stupid.
To Mankind
And the hope that the war against folly may someday be won, after all

Isaac Asimov
avatar
DaveWightman said Apr 04, 2013 23:25:44
As far as I can tell Artemis already has experience points and level ups and a class system, and it is manifested through your *actual skill at your job* on the ship. I am a huge fan of RPG mechanics, but I don't see a need for any artificial representation of skill such as experience points.

What is the purpose of allowing a level up which makes the weapons 1% faster when a weapons officer will naturally acquire those targets 1% faster as he becomes more competent. The whole point of the game is gaining EXP in real life.

In my mind the best representation of this is to just keep working on the game and make it easy to learn and difficult to master. Anyone can steer the ship. Working with the weapons officer to make sure your weapon arcs can hit the enemy as soon as they are ready to fire and then performing your complex maneuvers in the interim - those are some level 10 skills. Every station has those little nuances, and we just need to keep getting more of those. Skills you develop through *actual* experience.
avatar
JohnKlingbeil said Apr 05, 2013 01:57:50
people that grind are going to grind their life away, not just in games. in order to counter that, then the characters are on the server where they can't grind at home for a maxed character.

has anyone here actually played D&D or any other RPG? character sheets exist to mark personal achievements and to create variation from one character to the next. can you grind out levels by playing the same scenario over and over? no, not really. the GM would probably slap you upside the head with a player's manual if you tried to do it to get more exp. exp in real life from playing RPGs just means that you know how to play RPGs. same with everything else, same with Artemis.

every single MMO has levels of achievement gained through experience.

the 1% bonus to damage was just something off the top of my head. a 1% better anything would benefit the entire crew, not just the player. however i'm thinking that there should be something to mark the character as good at their job. the player is then vested in their character and has something to be proud of or show off.

it's like this, "are you good at Artemis? prove it!"
avatar
JamesDunnem said Apr 05, 2013 13:07:37
I feel this is redundant.

As a player, we gain experience with each mission, it is not a numerical value, but actual experience that puts us on a separate tier from the new player that has never faced a Torgoth Behemoth.
We have 'leveled up' and have personal knowledge of how fast an enemy ship can maneuver, where their arcs stop, whether they have jump-drive technology, or a penchant for using torpedoes.

In RPGs, the characters we create are given an experience value to track what they have learned in their travels, since we did not actually swing the sword, cast the spell, hack the terminal, or pick the pocket.
In Artemis, we are the characters, and have actually learned from our experiences.
A veteran Science Officer is more adept at her role due to her actually being an experienced Science Officer rather than just checking off an arbitrary checklist.

I am a huge fan of rewarding skill more so than 'marking time', as much as everyone loves to root for the underdog, it is infinitely more satisfying to actually be the underdog that comes out on top through daring, luck, and skill.
"There is an old Celtic saying: "Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde."
-Beware of the anger of a patient man.
avatar
TreChipman said Apr 05, 2013 15:20:17
Well said, James, and John, understand I don't have a problem with something like a badge and/or ranking system so long as it doesn't confer an advantage in the game. I've actually been working towards this goal, in fact. As a player, you SHOULD be able to say, "Yes, I've been on 58 missions, 54 of those were victorious, and 50 of them I served as the helmsman. Further, my crew and I gained the TSN Award for Conspicuous Carnage because we once defeated 100 ships in a single mission, and we've got the second highest success rate of the 124 ships in Delta Sector. So... Bring it on, chumps."

Please know I don't have a problem with recognizing skill on an individual or team level-- quite the opposite, in fact. I'm all for bragging rights. I just have a problem with rewarding it by granting direct bonuses in the game.
I'm not a mad scientist. I'm an angry one. You'd be wise to fear the latter.

Visit Artemis Command!
avatar
Mike_Substelny said Apr 06, 2013 00:49:27
In a real navy the "characters" that "level up" get new "powers" via promotions, training, and duty assignments. I believe that Artemis should work the same way.

I agree with JohnKlingbeil inasmuich as it would be a good idea to track the experience of a crew or individual player. Locally (within your crew) that Service Record should be used to give commendations, training, and more advanced duty assignments. Globally (within a larger Artemis community) that Service Record should be used to give promotions and citations.
"Damn the torpedoes! Four bells, Captain Drayton!"

(Likely actual words of Admiral David Farragut, USN, at the battle of Mobile Bay. Four bells was the signal for the engine room to make full steam ahead).
Login below to reply: