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Fighter Class Ship

posted Sep 18, 2012 22:17:55 by SigbiornSigmundarson
Now that Crews can field different classes of ships it seems to me it's now feasible to field a player controlled fighter class ship in conjunction with a full crew.
Here is my proposal:
A small, fast and agile ship with minimal hull and moderate shielding run by no more than two or three people (imagining a cockpit design similar to the original Cylon Raiders http://darthmojo.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/cylon_cockpit.jpg?w=655 ). One player would be assigned to helm duty, another to weapons, The third would act as commander if needed. As I said this would be in conjunction with a larger ship providing science data and communications data. Warp/jump would be the same as other classes to be able to keep up with the current ships until some sort of docking ability could be programmed.

I imagine that this would workout for groups with more than 6 players but not enough for a second full crew, not to mention the expansion of role playing. Right now the Scout ship almost fills this role with the exception of being a bit too big to be classified as a fighter. Thoughts?
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25 replies
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lordrahvin said Sep 18, 2012 22:49:49
The whole point of Artemis is to have a large crew that requires some sort of beaurocracy in order to function, so that people have to develop protocols to how they communicate with each other.

In a fighter, you have less people, so you need the opposite. You need the controls to allow a pilot to be self-sufficient and this goes against the design goals of the current interface. A fighter pilot, for example, would need to be able to fly toward a destination or find a target without relying on another crew member to provide bearing and distance.

I think having a fighter squadron command interface of some sort will be more productive than having a fighter cockpit, but I could see both working down the road.
[Last edited Sep 18, 2012 22:50:40]
Daredevil Cosmic Cowboys, TNS Hyperion, Weapons Officer
1st Fleet of Southern California Sector.

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SigbiornSigmundarson said Sep 18, 2012 23:04:06
Didn't even read it did you? My proposal specifically mentions a multiple person crew similar to 2 man fighter jets of the 70's. It also discusses how they can interact with the Artemis as a control, certainly giving comms MUCH more to do. The current design of the consoles would not need any changes persay. Everything could be done with a two man crew, with the consoles as they stand, only thing that is needed is a smaller model of the ship and changing of the basic attributes.
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lordrahvin said Sep 18, 2012 23:34:52
I read the post.

- All I'm saying is that the Helm interface isn't designed to function on its own, currently, without a Science station. They can't get bearing and distance from the Artemis science officer because his readings are only useful to the Artemis helmsman. The helm will need more self-sufficiency to be able to pilot his ship, perhaps by having his own Captain's Map or Tactical screen.

- COMMS wouldn't have more to do, because the fighter pilots don't have a COMMS officer. I'm assuming they will be in the same room, so likely the captain could just give them orders directly. I think it would be kind of weird that people are supposed to be in a different ship would still be chatting with others in the same room, but how else would you do it? Put them in another room and give them walkie talkies?

- My players don't find the Scout ship to be any fun. I doubt any of them would want to fly in anything smaller.

- I think a Scout ship would work well as a fighter, as-is. It's got the bare minimum to play a little bit of everything, including warp drive, shields, a beam weapon, and a torpedo. Its hard to imagine a smaller ship than this being survivable. Which begs the question: What happens to the fighter crew when their fighter is destroyed? Do they stop playing? Do they have to wait for the Artemis to restock?

- I think overall a Fighter Control Console would be more fun, as it would allow a player to still be part of the Artemis bridge crew and have more unique resources to manage. The weaknesses of fighters would be compensated by the fact that the player has many fighters and can use them to make formations and maneuvers and such.

- Alternatively, if we do want to fly one/two man fighters, I think a whole separate interface would be needed to make them more self-sufficient. So that, for example, helm can easily get distance/bearing, while Tactical might send/receive COMMS messages from players only. I also think some changes would be needed to the combat system to make sure they aren't killed in the first couple of (automatically hitting) hits.

- If we did have fighters, the missions should include an automated "Create Player" script that would activate if the Artemis docks on a space station while the fighter didn't exist.
[Last edited Sep 19, 2012 00:02:35]
Daredevil Cosmic Cowboys, TNS Hyperion, Weapons Officer
1st Fleet of Southern California Sector.

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DwayneShaffer said Sep 19, 2012 03:01:12
I think having a fighter squadron command interface of some sort will be more productive than having a fighter cockpit, but I could see both working down the road.


I am currently working on Missions that support the GM station. The missions will allow you to determine when to launch your squadrons there are 4 Viper sqd and 1 heavy raptor sqd also has a recon raptor which can do jumps any where on the map, 2 Shuttles and a CAP (combat air patrol). All via the GM Station (Tactical) Here is a look at the Tactical Station Key list.

GM key List for BSG mod

Launches Viper Squadrons

1- Launches Red Sqd (5)
2- Launches Blue Sqd (5)
3- Launches Gold Sqd (5)
4- Launches Green Sqd (5)


5- launches Heavy raptor sqd (5)
6- Launches Combat Air Patrol (2 Vipers)
7- launches a recon raptor

8- launches stealth viper (coming soon)
9- launches one Colonial shuttle (101)
0- launches one Colonial shuttle (102)

q- Trans light on (warp 01)
w- Trans light off returns to sub light
e- Recon One (Raptor) Jump Drive Short Range


a- Abandon Ship
s- Planetary Scan

j- System to System (Jump)


Mission Commands

z-
x-
c-
v-
b-
n-
m-

The Squadrons have limited fuel so when the fuel starts to run low the squadron will return to the capital ship to refuel.

So whom ever your tactical officer (GM station) is he or she will have to work well with the comms officer because the comms office will have to direct the squadrons to the fight or were ever you need them.

Dwayne Shaffer C.O.
Vidar GSR 3701
C.D.F. 7th Fleet
http://vidar-gsr-3701.webs.com/
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ORION said Sep 19, 2012 03:16:00
I really like the idea, because we have friends who want to join in, but not enough to crew a second ship. The fighter idea would give the one-three extra folks something to do to join in. or if one of the bridge officers wanted a change of pace.

the Role play potential could be awesome.

They could potentially have to "land" with the main ship to re-arm, repair, refuel just like the main ships have to dock with space stations.
Capt. Roy Farmer, C.O.
ASV Thermopylae
2nd Artemis Star Fleet
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DwayneShaffer said Sep 19, 2012 04:05:45
Fighters in Artemis have been around for a little while now I based the code snippet for fighter off another members (TreChippman) code for launching plasma torpedoes. When I 1st wrote the snippet there was no GM console (or fighters)so everything had to be on timers and proximity triggers. Now with the GM console I converted it to be another station (Tactical) so that fighters could be launch at command. Comms acts like a CAG and combat controllers would on an air carrier or Battlestar by giving orders to the SQD leader were then the Squadron would follow him/her. After launch the fighter will go were the Comms tells it to and engage the enemy or patrol an area as instructed by comms. My vipers and other launch able craft are set on timers so when they are out of feul they were automatical return to its Capital ship (base ship). If destroyed the ship would be replaced by another viper (fighter) the next time the Squadron is launched.

The big down fall for player version of fighter is the game is set for 2d still and is design for larger ship combat, When I 1st build the BSG mod it had player vipers, Raptors and shuttles but pose more troublesome then there were fun. So I discontinued them in favor of this way of playing. One of the nice things about artemis is for the most part if you can imagine it you can code it. But like everything there are limits. I have had more fun learning and discovery new way to make thing in this game then I have ever playing game or Sims. Thom has created something unique hear and the fact that anyone can create mission or mods make this one of the most outstanding finds for me.



Dwayne Shaffer C.O.
Vidar GSR 3701
C.D.F. 7th Fleet
http://vidar-gsr-3701.webs.com/
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DwayneShaffer said Sep 19, 2012 07:16:48
Artemis fighters in action


Dwayne Shaffer C.O.
Vidar GSR 3701
C.D.F. 7th Fleet
http://vidar-gsr-3701.webs.com/
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simplician said Sep 21, 2012 06:06:34
During a game my crew played yesterday, one crewman decided to make use of the new ship class selection and flew a scout ship by himself in a support/fighter capacity. He found it to be quite enjoyable, being able to dart in and disable ships while they were distracted by Artemis. He was also a sort of first response interceptor, distracting enemies from Stations while Artemis finished a battle that was already in progress.

While it is still a bit awkward to jump between Helm/Weapons and perform this sort of task, it is doable for an experienced player and apparently some people find the gameplay to be rewarding. Making the role easier to play, either by somehow making it easier to control both Helm/Weapons, or fully implementing some sort of Fighter class ship, would be a cool gameplay option.

Oh, also it's a fantastic role for a buddy who can't make it in person but wants to connect and play with the rest of the gang over the internet.
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DwayneShaffer said Sep 21, 2012 08:39:48
While it is still a bit awkward to jump between Helm/Weapons and perform this sort of task, it is doable for an experienced player and apparently some people find the gameplay to be rewarding. Making the role easier to play, either by somehow making it easier to control both Helm/Weapons, or fully implementing some sort of Fighter class ship, would be a cool gameplay option.


If you have an extra monitor laying around he my be able to use the split screen capabilities of his computer, (link) Making one helm the other weapons also you can use this program detailed here (Synergy lets you easily share your mouse and keyboard between multiple computers on your desk, and it's Free and Open Source. Just move your mouse off the edge of one computer's screen on to another. You can even share all of your clipboards. All you need is a network connection. Synergy is cross-platform (works on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux)) (link) to create a three Monitor system.
Dwayne Shaffer C.O.
Vidar GSR 3701
C.D.F. 7th Fleet
http://vidar-gsr-3701.webs.com/
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ORION said Sep 23, 2012 05:12:44
So, this is a really really rough, horrible photoshop job, but this is kind of what I think the single player fighter should look like as far as hud goes.

basically, the image of Artemis would be what the player sees, kind of a first person perspective. the instrumentation being the cockpit controls.

This could allow odd players out to join in in personally controlled ships. they wouldn't have as many systems, or options but they would have some control.

for instance, i did not include a torp selection section because i think fighters would only be loaded with one type, specified by comms.

but anywho, this is a really really rough idea layout. Let me know what everyone thinks.

i have absolutely zero ability to make this a reality, but hey, if people like the idea maybe Thom will put it in.


Capt. Roy Farmer, C.O.
ASV Thermopylae
2nd Artemis Star Fleet
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ORION said Sep 23, 2012 15:35:09

Capt. Roy Farmer, C.O.
ASV Thermopylae
2nd Artemis Star Fleet
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emblemamerica said Sep 23, 2012 17:24:56
I definitely agreed that FIGHTER would be an excellent station for situations where you have 6 crew and 1-3 extra players.
My suggestions for fitting this into the game dynamics are as follows:

FIGHTER has a console which is a mashup of HELM and WEAPONS with the addition of "Launch/Dock" and "Destruct" buttons. Something indicating range and distance of the Artemis would be nice too, but not necessary.
In canon a FIGHTER is an unmanned drone piloted from the Artemis. They follow the captain's orders as any other crewman. The ship is faster than the Artemis but has no warp, two forward beams, excellent maneuverability, one tube, and 200 energy.
If the FIGHTER runs out of energy there are several options. They can limp back to a station or the Artemis and Dock for recharge, the Artemis can come and retrieve them or they can "Destruct". Destruct costs the FIGHTER 30 energy (so it can't be done on an empty tank) and destroys the FIGHTER with some amount of offensive force. The console then gives the option to Build Fighter, which will take the same time it would to load a tube on the Artemis and costs the Artemis 300 energy.
A FIGHTER can also Torp to Energy, but not Energy to Torp. They can only store 3 missiles and draw on the Artemis stores to reloading.

A FIGHTER can function as additional firepower in a battle, be left to defend a station, or sweep an area to uncover a cloaked ship.

I also think the current ship classes would be limited to 1 or 2 fighters dependent on size. A carrier class could be created that has 6 FIGHTERS and no WEAPONS.
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Mike_Substelny said Sep 25, 2012 17:29:50
You can already implement a fighter using the Mission Scripting system. The fighter needs to be one of the other six ships, I recommend as the Scout class. The only trick is that the fighter pilot needs to click "Ready to Play" when the Captain orders a launch.

My vision of the fighter cockpit is to have two stations, Helm and Weapons. Science scans and Comms surrender demands would be done by the mothership.

My vision of the mission script is:

Fighter starts with zero nukes, mines, or ECMs.
If mothership has homing torps transfer up to 4 to the fighter.
Immediately position the fighter right beside the mothership as if it had launched.
Remove all DamCon parties and cut the shielding to a small number.
Constantly replenish the fighter's energy to exactly 100 for five or ten minutes.
The fighter can always zip around a Warp 4.
The fighter can't make Homing Torpedoes.
After ten minutes the energy runs out.
If the fighter is within 500 units of its carrier it gets picked up to refuel/rearm.

"Damn the torpedoes! Four bells, Captain Drayton!"

(Likely actual words of Admiral David Farragut, USN, at the battle of Mobile Bay. Four bells was the signal for the engine room to make full steam ahead).
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DwayneShaffer said Sep 26, 2012 04:33:35
Well if you have fighters you need something to carry them in so here is the Artemis-Class T.S.N. Carrier. I am currently working on both a multi system mission for Artemis and the BSG Mod. And since I love using fighters I made a carrier for them in the Artemis Universe. When I am finished with the Artemis mod it will have 9 systems you can travel to and complete missions in. I am about 45% done with the Artemis Mission. It takes advantage of the GM console used as a Operation or tactical station.

Sneak peak of the Carried and one of the Jump Gates.






[Last edited Sep 26, 2012 04:34:07]
Dwayne Shaffer C.O.
Vidar GSR 3701
C.D.F. 7th Fleet
http://vidar-gsr-3701.webs.com/
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Captain said Dec 18, 2012 22:26:01
The fighter sounds like a brilliant idea. I like the earlier comment by emblemamerica. That is how I pictured fighters. Except I would have three types. An interceptor which is really maneuverable but has week weapons (only lasers), a scout which has warp and minor scanning abilities allowing more data to be collected. (plus with warp drive) but no weapons. And a heavy fighter that could actually engage in combat but would have limited energy and speed That way it has to stay near stations not making it to powerful.
To Mankind
And the hope that the war against folly may someday be won, after all

Isaac Asimov
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